Compare and contrast Brideshead Revisited with The Man Who was Thursday. How are they different and how are they similar with respect to the following aspects: the authors' styles, the content of the story, the idea of modernity, and the idea of the Church or Catholicism. For The Man Who Was Thursday, recall that Gabriel Syme is a Catholic fighting, "the Last Crusade."
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Mrs. Messineo
It's interesting to consider how closely related the stories of Brideshead Revisited and A Man Who Was Thursday really are. Both are highly religious works, written in turn of the century England and express ideas that seem to banish modernity and find their most wholesome ideas and roots in the ideals of long ago. However, these effects are attained in entirely different ways.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of style the stories are very different. They both speak of religion in two very different ways. Brideshead Revisited uses religion subliminally throughout its plot, speaking of it outright but using symbolism found in both setting and character to convey its most essential meaning, that which speaks of finding true contentment and peace in a life with God alone. A Man Who Was Thursday speaks much more outright about religion. Though the vast majority of the novel is vague foreshadowing the end sort of slaps you in the face with its religious undertones, tying in the days of the week with creation and outwardly speaking of God and the Sabbath directly. Additionally, both books show a difference in syntax structure. Brideshead Revisited relies greatly on description to give the reader a sense of Waugh's feelings towards a particular "symbol." He additionally employs a plethora of allusions to other works, paintings, ect. These primarily add to the aristocratic heir of the characters but do make the reading a smidgen more difficult for those not well versed in such references. On the other hand, A Man Who Was Thursday relies heavily on dialogue to develop its characters' convictions and drive the plot along, using simpler sentences and making it an overall easier read.
Though both stories intend to address and criticize modern ideals, they do so through stories that vary greatly in pure content. Brideshead Revisited portrays the church from the public eye, depicting it as the "kill joy" of everyone's life through the character Lady Marchmain. Waugh recognizes the faults of the Church as an institution and uses his work to reveal the Church's "side of the story." The overly concerned nature of Lady Marchmain reflects the Church's well-meaning intentions when it comes to the ushering of people back into the faith. The story as a whole deals greatly with convincing oneself to be "good" even when society gives you every reason not to, "God make me good, but not yet,"
A Man Who Was Thursday gives more "black and white" ideas to morality. The book deals heavily with the theme of dualism, incorporating ideas of good vs evil, law vs chaos, and order vs anarchy. The police force is constantly working against the anarchists, or rather the new notions of modern men, of men who feel superior to authority, even divine authority. However, the book grows in depth as you learn that everyone is really on the same team, fighting for a voice in the dark and against a red-haired anarchist. The image of the modern anarchists served to represent modern day evils, and the resistance against this chaos is that of religion versus the corruption of the world. The entire tone of the piece reflects religion in a light that is entirely good instead of sympathizing with or describing the troubles that the general public has with the church as Brideshead Revisited does.
Both of these books were so entirely different. They were different experiences with reading it and I felt very different after reading each of them. These two novels serve to show what an influence tone, syntax and content can have on a reader even when the themes discussed are of the same nature.
Danielle,
DeleteNice job. I liked how you compared the religion ideas in both novels. I think that it was interesting that they both used different approaches to talk about the same idea. I also like the way that you talked about the "black and while" ideas. I think this was a perfect way to describe it. Nice job!
Hey, guys! Let’s have a conversation about the lovely, Catholic-based novels that we read in the past couple of months.
ReplyDeleteFirst, how are Waugh and Chesterton’s styles similar? These two authors’ writings are similar obviously because they both wrote their works in the early 20th century. Also, both of their storylines take on hopeless, despairing tones, but by the end, the tones are replaced with those of hope and triumph. So how do you think the author’s styles are different? Both novels are fictitious works, but Chesterton’s writing seems to incorporate more of a fantasy-like tone, such as a “man” escaping on an elephant and all of the anarchists turning out to be police officers. I also believe that Waugh’s writing included more formal diction and more complex syntax as compared to Chesterton’s, which added the element to his novel of the aristocratic and “pompous” people of Brideshead. This statement leads me to the next question about the content of the story.
If you think about it, Chesterton and Waugh’s character developments contrast greatly. Chesterton, first of all, blatantly names the important characters in his novels after the days of the week, and then one-at-a-time reveals their alter egos through multiple unveilings throughout the story. Waugh, on the other hand, describes characters with more subtle titles such as “Charles” or “Julia”, and the reader discovers their worth as the story unfolds. However, the characters are both crucial features to the content of both of the stories. It is through the characters’ discoveries, revelations, and conversions that the authors convey the meanings of their plots. Both novels also contain a significant character that is not the obvious protagonist, and it or he possesses the symbolism of the Church or God. In Brideshead Revisited it is Brideshead itself, and in A Man Who was Thursday it is clearly Sunday. Symbolism, allegorical representation, and allusions (more so in Brideshead) also are similarities found between the content of the novels
Let’s face it; Waugh and Chesterton both think that the modern world is failing at Christianity. That is a little harsh, but it does speak the truth. Why do you think they wrote these novels? For poops and giggles? In his novel, Waugh represents the “modern man” through characters such as Julia and Rex, who are living sinful lives and not even taking notice of the slander of their moralities. Julia ends up converting back to Catholicism in the end, and perhaps that is Waugh’s way of demonstrating that no one is ever “too far gone” to return to the Church, even in today’s world. Chesterton takes into account the destruction of modern warfare in the world through the struggle between the policemen and the “anarchists” in his novel. In the end, he reveals that everyone is actually on the same side, and working toward the same goal under one ruler. His work communicates that perhaps if we all acted like Christians are supposed to and treated our neighbors righteously, war and evil would not prevail so much in the universe.
I cannot believe we have to still write about how both novels relate to Catholicism and the Church. Haha! The strange aspect of Brideshead Revisited is that even though many of the characters come back to the church they do not seem obviously happy, but they are not suffering. A concrete example of this is when Sebastian returns to the Church, and (I think) Cordelia says, “he is not suffering” anymore. Even Charles in the end when he kneels down in the chapel and then returns to his men with a weird smile subtly depicts how the entrance of God into one’s heart can bring peace and joy. Now, I am not saying Christians never suffer. They suffer 24/7, but they suffer for God and not for themselves. Chesterton reveals this in his novel when Syme asks Sunday if “he suffers too”, and the large man replies, “Can ye drink of the cup I drink?” In other words, are Christians willing to suffer for their faith and the good of the world? If they reply, “yes”, they will truly earn the peace and happiness that only God Himself can give. Waugh and Chesterton, both devout Catholics, knew this and brilliantly conveyed their important message to the modern world through their classic novels and inspiring writings.
DeleteRachel,
DeleteI thought you made some great points in your blog. I really enjoyed the part about the authors style. I think that you encompassed all the ideas well into that section. I thought it was true how Chesterton used more fictitious and unlikely ideas compared to Waugh who had reasonable ideas. I also enjoyed the way that you talked about how each character was developed in the story. Nice blog!
Rachel,
DeleteI am going to focus pretty much on your discussion of the Catholicism. Don’t be alarmed, it’s a good thing. I agree with everything that you said. I think sometimes people turn a negative eye on Christian suffering. What they don’t realize, however, is that God probably suffers the most out of all of us. He watches his children sin and break away from him, and that can’t be easy. It would be so hard to handle, but he does it anyway. He does it for us, and that is what makes it beautiful. He asks us if we can drink of the same cup he does, and though it is hard to say yes, when we can all our suffering will be worth it. Nice job!
Brideshead Revisited and The Man Who was Thursday have many similarities, but also have some major differences. The most obvious similarities are the time period in which it was written and the Catholic theme that they were both written in. Looking past these two similarities there are many others. Another example is the way that the authors present the characters and events. Both authors make the reader uncover pieces of information and then make decisions for themselves before uncovering the truth at the end. In The Man Who was Thursday the reader is brought along to believe that there is only one undercover police detective before it is revealed that all the people other than Gregory are undercover detectives. This is an example of a similar style. Their styles are also different in the aspect that when reading Brideshead Revisited the reader can picture the events happening. Although the events never actually took place in the real world, they are feasible actions. Contrarily, in The Man Who was Thursday many of the events that took place would never happen. For example a table would not flip upside down into an underground meeting room. This is a difference in style that was necessary to make the stories make sense.
ReplyDeleteThe content of both stories also have some similarities and differences although they are more different than similar. One similarity between the two novels is that both deal with a moral obligation. In Brideshead Revisited Lady Marchmain wanted to make sure Sebastian did not leave the church. She was always making sure that he did the right things. In The Man Who was Thursday, the moral obligation was keeping anarchy out of society. This was done through the meetings, but it was eventually discovered that the only anarchist was Gregory. The content was mostly different for the rest of the novel. Although, they had similar ideas in the end the content was not the same.
Both novels deal with the move to modernity. The Man Who was Thursday talks about the desire to move to anarchy as a form of government. Although the reader find out in the end that this was not the goal, there is a theme of anarchy in the novel. This is their move to modernity. Brideshead Revisited moves towards modernity through the way that Sebastian acts. His character is the symbol of modernity and is used over and over throughout the novel.
Finally, both novels share the theme of Catholicism. The Man Who was Thursday used a different approach to talk about Catholicism. A reader would not have noticed the Catholic theme until the end of the novel. It is not apparent that there is a Catholic theme because it seems to be all about anarchy. When a reader thinks more in-depth about the novel they realize that the names of the people symbolize the story of creation. Brideshead Revisited takes a different approach. They make religion a theme of the entire novel. Lady Marchmain makes the entire novel about Catholic ideas by continually bringing the church into different situations. This makes a Catholic theme evident. Both novels use a theme of Catholic ideas, but take different approaches.
Kraus,
DeleteI think that you did a really nice job. Your discussion of the approaches that the authors take to putting Catholicism in their books was spot on. Chesterton definitely hides it more, but his idea is also different from Waugh’s in a way. Waugh’s novel seems to show more of a gray area for Catholicism, where Chesterton’s is more concrete. I also liked that you talked about Lady Marchmain. She is such an annoying but necessary character to make Brideshead work. It was great!
Kraus,
DeleteI also think that you did an excellent job with your blog. You did an excellent job with comoatibg the styles of huge two authors in this book. I agree with Megan that Lady Marchmain is a neccesary character in the novel even though I myself was not particularly a fan her. I feel that Brideshead was much more modern because of the modern day situations that were portrayed. Anyways, great job!
Kraus,
DeleteOther than being a great score updated when it comes to basketball (Go Dayton Flyyers!) you wrote a good blog too. The styles and the aspects of Catholicism were pretty spot on. The comparison of Waugh's and Chesterton's styles was very good. Other than that it was pretty solid all round. Nice job!
The stories of A Man Who Was Thursday and Brideshead Revisited. Where do I even start? There is so much that is different about these two novels in particular, that it is almost hard to find any real similarities.
ReplyDeleteThe only similarity that I can really find is set in the author’s style. Waugh and Chesterton are actually very similar in the way that they wrote these two stories. They both immediately set two characters before you. Those characters are also very similar. Charles and Syme were both characters that were happy to follow law and order. They did things sort of by the book, whether they always wanted to or not. They both, however, met characters that changed their outlook on the world. Sebastian and Gregory both lived chaos filled lives. They both changed the protagonist of the story by showing them how to live a chaotic life, and then sucking them in to living it full time. The main characters both also manage to find their way back to normalcy in the end. The characters of these two novels are written very similarly.
Both of the author’s also rely heavily on symbolism. In Brideshead Revisited and A Man Who Was Thursday the symbolism also derives directly from the characters within the story. Both Sunday and Bridey symbolize God. Bridey is a devout catholic who wants nothing more than to follow God’s law. Sunday is a more abstract symbol of God. He firsts brings about faith by being the man in the dark room that they all trust in. Then he makes them question his intentions. After that they follow him through struggle and strife, and in the end they are rewarded to a party in his house. If that doesn’t symbolize our religious journey as Catholics, nothing ever will. God has said “whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die” (John 11:26). That is also extremely true in this novel. They live and believe in Sunday, and they are rewarded with a celebration and the chance to sit with God.
The idea of modernity is very prevalent in both stories. Both Waugh and Chesterton see society crumbling basically right before their eyes. The world was pretty much falling apart, and they wanted to warn the world what they were doing to themselves. They both saw the modern people as sinful and corrupt. Chesterton writes his entire novel to show that people are running around chasing each other for absolutely no reason at all. Syme defaults to violence with the Inspector Ratcliffe for no reason at all. He is trying to show that people are often on the same side, but we result to violence before we stop to ask questions, and that is the absolute truth of all of it. Waugh says that the modern people have discarded God’s love and mercy. The characters in Brideshead Revisited, especially Rex and Julia, are living very sinful lives. They are cheating on their spouses, partying it up, and have somewhat broken away from the church. Waugh is encouraging them to regain their faith.
The author’s portray these ideas of the church in somewhat different ways. Waugh portrays it as how everyone sees it. People see the church as somewhat of a nuisance. They sort of avoid it because they want to have a good time, and they don’t see why the idea of the church has to get in the way. Waugh concludes it by showing that we as people can still have fun and embrace God. Chesterton portrays the church as good. It never calls into question that we should be part of the church. That it makes it less relatable to Brideshead in my opinion. It is easier for me, at least, to accept that the characters in Brideshead went through some struggles with their religious values, rather than Syme who accepts being a Catholic almost blindly. I liked that Brideshead explored the gray area, but that is just me. Both novels, however, ultimately show the goodness of the church.
As an end note I just want to say that I could not help putting in that quote from A Tale of Two Cities/Crime and Punishment. I physically could not help it. It had to happen!
Megan,
DeleteI agree that the symbolism in both of the novels is very important to the overall themes in the novels. I especially loved the comparison with Bridely and Sunday I didn't even really think about comoatibg those two characters, but now after reading your blog I can totally see it. The only exception is that Bridey is much more anyonying than Sunday. But anyways great job!
Alright, let's compare these novels. They do not seem to be very similar as the two authors took two entirely different approaches to these novels. However, even thought there are many differences there are also similarities as well.
ReplyDeleteSo the style of the author's is very interesting to compare. In Brideshead Revisited, the topic of religion is not quite as outright as The Man Who was Thrusday. Brideshead focused more people's relationships with the church. This is seen through the many characters of. Lady. Marchmain, Lord Marchmain and Sebastian. While is The Man Who was Thursday the church was not the central theme, rather the broader term of religion was much more central to the book. In both of the book the characters represented more than just themselves, they were symbols for the bigger theme in both of the books. In Brideshead the characters represented the church, Sebastian was an example of a typical saint story, while Charles represented the non-believers in the world and Lord Marchmain was and example of catholic who strayed away from the church and came back in the end. In A Man Who was Thursday the characters represented the days of creation.
Both of the novels represents religion. Brideshead is a novel concerning the church while A Man Who was Thursday focuses on religion with an aspect toward society. Brideshead focuses on the members of the church even including those that do not believe in God, which is Charles. A Man Who was Thursday centers on religion in general and who we as catholic must combat anarchy and keep our religion alive otherwise the world would result in total chaos. Both of the books rely on symbolism very heavily to portray the overall message. Both authors also rely on their characters for symbols.
Brideshead seems to be much more modern than A Man Who was Thursday. This is because A Man Who was Thursday had the dreamlike quality to the story which is why some parts of the story seem to be very exaggerated and far fetched. While Brideshead has real life situations such as drinking problems and divorce. This gives the story a very modern spin and makes the novel seem very relatable.
It is very clear that both books are centered on Catholicism this is because of the symbolism in both of the books. The symbols express the importance of our religion in our society today. Both authors express the importance of religion in the society, this is very prominent in A Man Who was Thursday.
Michaela,
DeleteI liked your blog. You went into some depth when it came to the styles of the author, and it really contributed to the points you were making in the blog. Your Catholicism aspects were good when the seven days of the week symbolized creation. Nice blog!
Michaela Cashmer,
DeleteI like your brief comparison between the two novels. I envy your curtness. Haha! I particularly was drawn to the part of it where you related them to modernity. I was intrigued that you said that Brideshead was more modern than A Man who was Thursday because of its settings and characters. I would argue that only because they both actually focus on the modern world's struggle with Christianity just with different styles. That is the only negative thing I have to say, though. Other than that, nice discussion on the different topics of the prompt. Good work, girl!
Michaela,
DeleteNice blog. You managed to draw some very good distinctions between the two novels while keeping a consistency that highlighted their similarities. I also agree that Brideshead is much more about the Church as an institution and A Man Who Was Thursday. That is definitely the primarily difference between the two, and it,a ages to give them. One is much more cynical then the other. Nice job, Michaela.
Comparing and contrasting A Man Who Was Thursday and Brideshead Revisited... Oh boy.
ReplyDeleteWell let's see here. First off they are both Catholic novels, but then again that is stating the obvious. Well, and again both of them do feature protagonists who run around like chickens with their heads cut off. Syme is confused and panicked when he learns that Sunday was the guy in the dark room, and when all of the other anarchists were cops from the Scotland Yard trying to fight with each other. The main character in Brideshead revisited was absolutely bewildered when he figured out, at the end, that his army camp was at Brideshead Manor, there were a lot of goofy things occurring at Brideshead manor when the story was taking place, mostly all of them having to deal with Sebastian drinking, having a rejuvenation, and then going away to be a monk. Like what the heck. Both novels also tested the main characters, or supporting characters' faith. Syme's faith was tested through chasing Sunday forever and ever through a ton of unbelievable situations, then again, that book was just a dream. Charles' faith was tested the whole way through the book as well, and in the end he gave in by going to the chapel before the war. I wrote a lot about Syme's faith in my paper this week, so I'm not doing it to an extent again... I got basketball to watch.
There was one huge thing as a means of content in both of these books. In Brideshead Revisited, Charles was obliged to keep Sebastian's head screwed on while Lady Marchmain ran around, again, like a chicken with her head cutoff, and to hold down the fort. On Syme's part, there was only one objective, to stop Sunday an his Anarchist Council. When he found out everyone else was a cop but Gregory and Sunday, the book took a plot turn. When I was reading, it was like a "What the heck is going on" moment. So the content was related, but wasn't exactly the same.
The usage of modernity is used throughout both novels, more one than the other though. It is used in A Man Who Was Thursday because, as Gregory said, he desired that anarchists would rule the world on day, creepy thought, but seriously... In Brideshead Revisited, a theme of modernism is used through the development of Charles becoming a Catholic. As he progresses, he moves farther away from society and towards God. This is the modernist view we have to take towards progressing our faith. Society sucks right now and lures us away from God. We have to get back into the groove of things when it comes to this concept.
As for Catholicism, both themes are evident in the novels, but in Chesterton's novel you have to keep an eye out for it. The seven days of the week symbolize the creation, and the final line that Sunday quotes is relatable to the entire novel, which is a quote from Mark's gospel. As for Brideshead Revisited, Lady Marchmain tries to preach to Charles and Sebastian and to everybody else the entire novel, but Charles does not listen until the end. Sebastian becomes a monk in the middle of the story, but everyone was confused to why he became a monk. So the theme of Catholicism has to be searched for in A Man Who Was Thursday, but is evident as Charles has a change of heart in Brideshead Revisited.
Matt Bobby,
DeleteWhy do I always have a smile on my face after I read your blogs? Haha! I absolutely love your first paragraph. I never thought about how true it is that both of the protagonists in the novels are searching or chasing after on thing that results in being faith and Catholicism. I think you're correct in saying that the novels are modern because they do recognize the issue of society pulling some people away from their faith. I liked that point you made, as well. Good blog, Matt Bobby! Enjoy your basketball!
Matt,
DeleteI have to concur with Rachel that your blogs always leave me feeling entertained. The opening was perfect. Both of our protagonists in these two novels were rather confused throughout the course of the story. I guess that's why the stories work though, I mean, who hasn't been confused every now and again regarding their faith? I really doubt anyone. Also their of fused state leave a lot of room for them to grow and develop. Nice blog, Matt.